Personal Transformation
An interview with Rick and Mary NurrieStearns
by Raz Ingrasci, President (Edited
by Shawn McAndrew)
Rick and Mary NurrieStearns are the Publisher and Editor, respectively,
of Personal Transfortmation Magazine. They recently completed the
Hoffman Process, and the winter 1999 issue of Personal Transfortmation
features an article about the Hoffman Process.
Raz Ingrasci: When was Personal Transformation
founded?
Mary NurrieStearns: Well, Rick and I were married
in June of 1990, and instead of having a baby, we had a magazine.
We began working on the magazine in 1991. What brought us to the
magazine was our separate paths converging. Rick had a long interest
in Eastern spirituality, and considered himself on a spiritual path.
I was trained in Western psychology, and I believed that the way
to self-actualize was through a psychological path.
RI: What was your vision in starting the magazine?
Rick NurrieStearns: It was to create a magazine
that would be more psychologically and spiritually grounded than
what was currently available. Our whole idea was to assist in transforming
people's lives — to define both the psychological and spiritual
elements by presenting very solid information. In 1990 there were
only a couple of serious magazines with small circulations. There
was a lot of magical-type thinking. People were searching, but there
was not much substance to be found.
MN: Both of us have felt for many years that our
life's work was in this arena of healing and transformation. It
was a way to be a resource for the whole process of healing and
transformation.
RI: Has your vision changed over time?
RN: I think there's been a tremendous evolution
within ourselves. The magazine is in some ways a reflection of our
own inward paths. Our interests, whether they be psychological or
spiritual, have been reflected in the magazine.
RI: Obviously you see yourselves as part of a
greater movement in our culture. What do you think is happening
in our culture right now?
MN: I see that the force in the culture that is
materialistic and success oriented is growing in power. We see that
in the news. There's such a focus on who you are, what you do, what
you drive — a big emphasis on materialism. I see that force
growing. At the same time I see another force growing in the culture:
people moving to more spiritually-oriented living. There has been
almost a counter-culture movement away from materialism. But what
I see happening now is both a material orientation plus a kind of
counter-culture spiritual orientation. What's new is this growing
group of people, let's call them the cultural creatives, who are
looking to weave the two lives together: how does one live in this
world while dealing with the tasks of ordinary life from a more
spiritual orientation? That's the audience that we serve.
RI: So what's evolving is a more integral view
where spirit and everyday life are not diametrically opposed - where
our goal is to integrate?
MN: That's right.
RI: Journalism strives to be objective. You're
reporting on the very subjective field of experiential personal
transformation. What qualifies as personal transformation for you
in the magazine?
RN: We're looking for material, whether it be
a workshop or material in the magazine, that's pointing in the direction
rather than giving a formula for doing it. When we see formula type
thinking: 'five ways to better communications with your lover,'
'six ways to find what you want to do.' That's just not it for us.
Rather, we're posing questions that make the readers discover their
own truth for themselves. Ours is a more open-ended type of exploration.
MN: When I'm looking at material as the editor,
it has to make sense psychologically as far as what we know about
human development. It has to be grounded in some knowledge or science.
It has to be grounded in a sense of relationship with something
greater than the human, whether it's something transcendent or God
or spirit. We're not simply looking at human development on the
ego side, but embracing the larger realm of human life that includes
involvement with some kind of spiritual work. On the side of spirituality,
we're looking for material that is found in most spiritual traditions.
We're not advocating specific spiritual philosophies or religions,
but rather we're advocating spiritual themes such as the need for
forgiveness.... We're not aligning with any religion but are utilizing
the understandings that pervade spiritual life and presenting that
information in conjunction with psychological issues.
RN: I think what works in the Hoffman work, which
is the same approach that our magazine uses, is to let participants
make their own discovery. There's not a dogma, but a teaching that
self-discovery is within one's self. That's the same aim of the
material in our magazine. It's not hand-feeding answers to readers;
it's nurturing their own self awakening.
RI: At the Hoffman Institute we don't think that
we know something about your life that you don't know, but we do
think that we help you to find your own knowledge within.
MN: We look for stories and presentation of material
that inspires and touches hearts. With the Hoffman Process, there's
a group synergy and participants can look at other people going
through experiences and it gives them some energy and willingness
and inspiration to stay the course in their Process.
RI: The heart is really the meeting place of both
psychological and spiritual concerns. It's both the repository of
the emotions and the entry to spirit.
MN: That's really true. One of the tests that
the material has to go through before it goes into the magazine
is that when I read it, it has to touch my heart. If it doesn't
touch my heart, it doesn't go into the magazine. I do think that
the heart is the meeting place, and that's what helps us stay the
course when it's difficult.
RI: Rick, did you, coming from a more spiritual
practice, find a psychological balancing for yourself in the Process?
And Mary, I wonder if you, coming from a more psychological perspective,
found a spiritual balance in the Hoffman Process? Or am I reading
too much into this?
MN: There's relevance in what you're saying. One
of the comments I wanted to say about the Hoffman Process is I think
no matter where we are at on the path, and no matter how much attention
and movement is in our inner lives, the Hoffman Process moves us
into a deeper place of what hasn't been touched yet. That's true
for me since part of what I experienced at the Hoffman Process was
certainly centering me more in my spiritual source and power. But
there was also a certain amount of psychological clearing out. The
way I look at it, in that process as I sank more deeply into my
spiritual being, there was more of a container and holding for whatever
movement needed to occur on the psychological side of me. It was
a wonderful synergy in the same way that as I sank more deeply into
my psychological process, more space became currently available
for the spiritual side of me to move in and come home.
RN: Once you clear out the emotional stuff then
there's an opening available for deeper experiences or experiences
of a higher nature. That was my learning in the Hoffman work —
clearing out some of that old psychological stuff and being able
to access something far deeper than what I imagined was there.
RI: You publish a wonderful magazine that's making
an important contribution. I hope our readers will subscribe. Thank
you. ø
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